User talk:Darkman 4
Hi, welcome to BioShock Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Wrench page. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Uberfuzzy (talk) 20:10, 13 March 2009 Thanks for the pictures Hi there. Just checked your contributions, wow you've been around since the beginning! Thanks for adding those great images for the Infinite weapons. Unownshipper (talk) 05:40, November 24, 2013 (UTC) :Indeed, those are fine renditions in the same quality as those we had of weapons from the first game. The only problem is that IG didn't inverse the written texts on the side of the weapons. :D :Still I have to ask, could you get us too pictures of weapons from BioShock 2 and the elephant and nail gun from the multiplayer? We don't have a lot of good images for both of these games. :Pauolo (talk) 09:21, November 24, 2013 (UTC) :Going through the pictures you uploaded (and categorized, thanks a lot for that :) ), I noticed you missed the Shotgun and Hand Cannon textures from Burial at Sea. :Also I realized you might not have the Season Pass, and so not access to the golden skins for the pistol and machine gun. If you want I can upload for you the necessary files, as well as the textures for Comstock's Shotgun that was given with preorders. I don't have Comstock's Sniper Riffle though, but I'm waiting for Winter sales to get the Columbia's Finest pack from Steam. :Pauolo (talk) 09:44, November 24, 2013 (UTC) ::Ah, I thought you were modeling them from the files with some tool like Gildor's. I reckon those Comstock/golden weapons don't have any third person model, I saw that when switching weapons. I'll see with MegaScience if those can be visualized using some extracting tool. The result sure will not be as good, but if that is the only option... ::Also, do you think you could do the same for BioShock 2 and Minerva's Den? Well, if you don't have the game nor its DLC, do not bother buying them if you don't want to, I'll just need some tutorial of yours to help me do the same myself. ::Pauolo (talk) 11:12, November 24, 2013 (UTC) :::So we're using the same tool. Still yes I agree, the files in Bio2 are weirdly packed. If I knew my way around I would have found its item icons, yet it doesn't seem like there is a general package for them. Maybe folks at RaptureArchives.org were able to get them since they uploaded item icons from the mulitplayer. :::Pauolo (talk) 12:03, November 24, 2013 (UTC) Hey, I love your contributions, I was wondering if you could helpe me with a special project. Im creating custom papercraft files of the bioshock vending machines. I am having a tough time getting images of the Dollar Bill Machines, Ideally I need close up and full images of all the Dollar Bill Machines from all Angles. If you can help me I implore you. I can send you the files I've already created for the first 2 bioshock games. Please email me @ mrsinclairproductions@gmail.com. Thanks again. Sinclairissa (talk) 17:58, November 24, 2013 (UTC) Do you know of a place where I could find better quality images? ZanyDragon (talk) 22:04, November 24, 2013 (UTC) Pictures Thanks for bringing in those new pictures. I just wanted to ask you: if you go through Dionysus Park again, would you care getting me the complete sign with the name of the place? We only have a part of it featured on the Rapture Businesses page. I remember it is featured at several places around the map, one being the main lobby past the train station, and one other inside the storage room of Cohen's Collection, where we start the level. Pauolo (talk) 21:53, November 26, 2013 (UTC) Re: BaS rapture First of all, you don't need to yell at me. I'm perfectly willing to engage in a civil discussion with you. I'd hardly call the few contibutions I've done a "crusade." If you are referring to the edit I undid on the Kyburz page, I simply didn't want to make the assumption that Kyburz was a member of the city council simply from a brief/vague implication in Burial at Sea - Episode 1. Admittedly, I do beleive that the Rapture in Burial at Sea is seperate from the one in BioShock. I'm just going off what makes sense by what I see in the game. It's not just a few minor differences, it's large inconsistencies some of which include there being Devil's Kiss instead of Incinerate!, no Health Stations, Bouncers that have grappling hook drills, the pressence of Tears, the disimilarities with the Kashmir Restaurant's outer appearance, the imprisonment of criminals in Fontaine's Department Store instead of Persephone, etc. Doesn't it make far more sense that this isn't the BioShock Rapture, but rather, it's a Rapture from the infinite realms discussed in Infinite (the same city, just slightly different)? This is, after all, a BioShock Infinite add-on. Frankly, Levine's answer of "It's prime. It's Elizabeth prime and it's Rapture prime" is so terse and cryptic that I find it potentially misleading. Why not dispel all confusion and reply to the question with "This is the Rapture that Jack runs around in." It makes me wonder what is going to occur in Burial at Sea - Episode 2 and if he's setting something up that will only be clear when both DLCs are complete. Also, what he said is not the same as "this is the Rapture that BS1 and BS2 take place in." He could be stating "This is Rapture in it's prime." Unownshipper (talk) 09:16, November 27, 2013 (UTC) :Ok, I'm gonna wield my shield of facts, draw my sword of knowledge and jump into this near-to-become battling debate (most of all because I love theatrical entrances). :First of all I will say that in my opinion, the city we see in Burial at Sea is the same Rapture as the one from BioShock and BioShock, but not entirely. Let me explain: :I can understand that the constraints forced down by the reused gameplay of Infinite might let you think of inconsistencies. But those are mostly design changes, and do not really hurt the consistency of the game's story. To be honest, I do prefer a lot more the aspect of the Kashmir Restaurant in BaS than in the original game. Technical limitations 6 to 4 years could had never allow large open spaces such as those in BioShock Infinite, without hurting down the (already short) length of the maps and increasing the loading times, if not the number of maps as a whole. :About Fontaine's being a public prison, well you can't make an example by making dissidents disappear into some secret penal colony, unknown by the majority of the city, so far me it's not inconsistent with Bio2. However the DLC shoots itself in the foot with some incoherent story elements, but that's not related to our discussion here (I'll write later about that on BaS - E1's page). :Pneumo Lines and Air Grabbers don't look far-fetched in my opinion, they do bend well with what we know of Rapture's technologies. Still I'm a bit pissed IG did not re-textured Infinite's consumables to fit with those we already knew from the first two games. That's a bit laughable to find bottles of vintages such as 1897. That also shows how much budget and time constraints IG had to make this first episode, and make me wish they just made a big one instead of separating it into two episodes for the sake of the season pass, though that sounds more like editorial constraints. :Now for what I do not consider canon to the first two games' story: :First I will say that I don't give a flying fuck to whatever Ken Levine said about Rapture Prime or what-so, his only role now is to sell whatever he created, so he lost his credibility to my eyes, if he had any to begin with. :Anyway, I think that both drinkable Plasmids AND the timeline of BaS were only possible because of Fink opening Tears into Rapture. Maybe those Tears had other actions on BaS's timeline, but not too many since, according to Suchong, they started to occur back in October 1958. So far this impact of Columbia over Rapture resulted in new forms of Plasmids which could have seen the day if Rapture did not break apart, but maybe also an earlier success for the Protector/Gatherer programm since Suchong could have also witnessed the conception of Handymen, if not of the Songbird itself. It can also be possible Suchong did not die yet in this slightly changed timeline of Rapture, because he could have avoided complications in the creation of the Big Daddy/Little Sister bond, thanks for Columbia's own scientists with a different scientific approach. Think also that thanks to Tears, Fink could have witnessed Rapture at different time, and vice-versa for Suchong and Columbia, thus early technologies on both sides. :To resume my thoughts on this timeline/universe debate, I believe that the Rapture of BaS shares the same timeline as the one of the first two games, with the only difference being that no Tears were opened in the latter, thus no drinkable Plasmids or other early scientific breakthroughs. Now if Elizabeth's goal is to end her own existence (which I strongly believe to be), it will also put an end to the influence of Columbia over Rapture, since the early 20th century utopia will definitely cease to exist, thus returning us to the original timeline. :It brings me to this conclusion: whatever new story background on Rapture we can gather from BaS can be considered canon, if it does not contradict the first two games. If that were the case, well let's not forget that BioShock 2 tends to slightly contradict the original one in some points (among others: Suchong's date of death, the Protector/Gatherer programs...). As far as I know, we did not create a separate timeline page for it. :Pauolo (talk) 22:19, November 27, 2013 (UTC) ::Just to be sure I was clear enough, I only consider the background of BaS as canon, not the main story (Booker/Elizabeth appearance in Rapture) since it resulted of Tears opening in Rapture. Those resulted in the creation of aan alternate timeline from the first big changes in Rapture, here Suchong's work in the late 1958. I'm not sure Booker's arrival way earlier could have made any changes in the events we know from the first games. ::In the end, Tears are the epicenter of all that happened in both Infinite and Burial at Sea. Even if Columbia had been built by Comstock, without the Lutece Window and Field there would be no prophecy, no powers for Anna/Elizabeth, no messed-up timeline for Rapture. Or you can say all is the Luteces' fault, since they did all they could do to be together, even if it meant tearing open the fabric of the universe(s). ::Pauolo (talk) 21:43, November 28, 2013 (UTC) :::To Pauolo, thank you for weighing in on the subject. :::To Darkman, thank you for your apology. You made some fair points, so I'm willing to consider that the Rapture in Burial at Sea might be the same as the one in the BioShock universe. Personally, I remain unconvinced, but that's the beauty of the Internet, we're allowed to disagree. :::I totally agree about Elizabeth being the same from Infinite. I also agree that Ryan might be trying to send a message to the populace, though having people "disappear" might have been equally as poignant. I disagree about him thinking that the individuals were "too spliced up" to be of any use to test Plasmids or Big Daddies for Sinclair and Alexander though. :::I must respectfully disagree about the Plasmids: you don't make multiple versions of your own product that does basically the same thing, that's a drain on your resources and you're oversaturating the market with too similar a product. For your gun example, yes there are multiple guns that fire a particular type of ammo made by multiple manufacturers (Colt, Remington, S&W), but those are made to compete with the other manufacturer's product. It's not like Fontaine had competition in the Plasmid industry (Ryan nationalized the business, he wasn't a competitor) and you'd perfect your product during the R&D phase and then slap a label on it and send it to market. (We see Incinerate! and Devil's Kiss do different things in Bio1 and BaS set someone ablaze & delicately light a cigarette, respectively, but that doen't mean that those products had different purposes (one for attack and the other for leisure). Jack was always on the defensive mode, of course he didn't have the finesse Booker DeWitt displayed. :::Actually, about the Kashmir Restaurant, I was referring to the fact that the BioShock one is Art Deco while the one in BaS (what we see of it) looks Art Moderne and has an unobstructed view. End of Rant :::I agree we should table the discussion until Burial at Sea - Episode 2 is released, whenever that will be, and just write the articles on this site as objectively as possible, noting what is present in BioShock & what is present in Burial at Sea. I won't add the "Burial at Sea doesn't take place in the same city" to the pages if that's what the general concensus is. :::I'd just like to ask you this: If Ken Levine didn't say what he did, would you think that the Rapture in BaS is the same as the one in BioShock? :::IMO videogames, like films and plays, are more than just one individual's product. Compared to what a painter, author, or individual songwriter says, games are the product of so many individuals that one man's statement should not be taken as the final word on the subject. :::Unownshipper (talk) 08:23, November 30, 2013 (UTC) ::I think that in this timeline, Ryan Industries was gonna replace the whole injectable Plasmid line with the drinkable ones, because it was indeed a better way to sell them. And since they were indeed selling the same type of genetic modifications, giving them a new name and an upgraded version would sell them faster than just selling out old products in a new way. Also, Suchong was always looking for improvement in his Plasmids (like he said in his audio diary related to Telekinesis' development). Also even in Bio1 and 2 Plasmids were originally sold as home improvements and other harmless use, even the radar range and why not the Nail Gun from the multiplayer, so it's not just in BaS. ::For the Kashmir, I think they were trying to get closer to this depiction of the restaurant (artwork named 1958, drawn for the promotion of Bio2). Also the few we could see of the buildings' outside appearance in both games was not enough to tell us if it was Art Deco or not. ::Pauolo (talk) 00:21, December 2, 2013 (UTC) ::Whereever it fits in the controversy, I dont think that Fontaine was the only one in the ADAM industry (at the time of his 'death'). Fontaine was just further ahead than most others. Ryan would have got into it to make money and try to outdo Fontaine. He tells someone about plasmids/tonics in a Diary 'to go make a better product' (implying thats possible and likely competition already exists) and we see even Bootleggers in operation in BS2 (showing it doesnt take a humungus operation to do it) . Three months from Fontaines death, sometime later than that the 'nationalization', sometime later than that the reorganization (including vetting Fontaine's minions) and operation of at least some of Fontaines ADAM operation under Ryan's faction. The Kashmir then changes everything. Thats a short time to see Gatherer's Garden machines put into operation, and Ryan signs selling ADAM products - when any new out-in-the-sea advertisement signs like that probably wouldnt have been added after the Civil War started at that point. Conclusion - Ryan already had business in that product (possibly for years). If anything it does not say anywhere that Fontaine was the only producer of ADAM products up to the time Ryan took over Fontaines businesses. ::RYAN Official Retailer | adam bought • sold | implants • enhancements | extend your life | your source for ADAM legal • clean • safe ::Testxyz (talk) 08:35, December 2, 2013 (UTC) You think you can find and upload a Rapture render of the Hand Cannon? ZanyDragon (talk) 05:33, December 11, 2013 (UTC) Can ou find an image of the Tommy Gun Ammo for Burial at Sea? ZanyDragon (talk) 15:58, December 20, 2013 (UTC) Question: Where did you find the images for the ammo and weapons you posted in the BioShock Infinite weapon articles? ZanyDragon (talk) 20:19, December 21, 2013 (UTC) Do you think you can find images of the Burial at Sea weapons? How about for Tommy Gun Ammo? How about the weapon skins with the downloadable content? The golden guns obtained with the season pass? ZanyDragon (talk) 02:23, January 3, 2014 (UTC)